Your right Joy time to move on an let god deal with this one

Thanks Guys for your replies
First to Joybubble I say SNAP lol and how I enjoy your happy and free spirit in chat.(think I have that right). Joybubble suggests that tongues is a gift for today, I will deal with this error soon. Also she suggests that I will be held accountable, but I ask, will you not also be held accountable? Also she makes it appear that I should be afraid of this accountability, I am not, for perfect love casts out fear, I look forward with confidence to standing before the Bema seat.Romans 8:1 gives me that confidence. Joybubble also makes the claim that God has laid it upon her heart to tell me once more, but tell me what? I assure her that she is not the only one who has a burden upon their heart, I have a burden for the truth of scripture, the truth of the Gospel, the welfare of my brothers and sisters in Christ, the spiritual health of the saints and so on. To her in love I say be sure that what you are hearing is indeed from God. As for me I simply stick to the scripture 2 Tim 4:1-5 :I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to
judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:
2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great
patience and instruction.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears
tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires;
4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths
This is what God placed on my heart 35 years ago and I will not turn from it unless He tells me to.

To my friend RFeasel I simply wonder if the lower case g in your reply is some kind of a clue for us all. More soon

May God richely bless you all
May the wind be always at your back
In Christian love
Noolie

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It is truly sad that you have decided to speak against one of the gifts given to us by the father. In your large but uninformed article, you have sought to disprove the very existance of a wonderful gift freely given by God and therefore have misled the saints into a state of disbelief over an experience that you say does not exist. Please be informed that the error is on your part.

I thank Jman for his post, but I have a few observations to express.
Our friend Jman writes, it appears without much thought at all, “your large but uninformed article” but then fails to point out in any respect at all what he finds “uninformed”. No no this will not do at all and adds nothing to the subject at hand whatsoever. What do you find uninformed, can you back up your view with scripture not taken out of context while applying sound biblical principles? I call upon all to please apply sound hermeneutics and exegesis in this discussion as this will help us all to come to an understanding of the truth. Jman also makes the assumption that I am trying to disprove what he calls a “wonderful gift”. Such uninformed bold statements from a proud heart must be answered. I am not trying to disprove the existence of tongues in the charismatic movement at all, how can one disprove what clearly is happening, the question I am asking is for us all to take an open and honest look at this phenomena, this of course includes myself, so we might come to a knowledge of the truth. This is not an attack upon you, how many times do I have to say that? I have said it before and I will say it again, I do not believe that all tongues as practiced in the charismatic movement are false or demonic, not at all. I cannot say that, thereby putting our great God in a box, He will do what He wishes, to whom He wishes, whenever He wishes, praise Him. Jman also uses the tired old charismatic term “experience” to back up the erroneous theology of this movement, surly its time you understood that you cannot/should not/must not base your theology upon experience but upon the firm foundation of the scriptures. Also it is not up to me to defend myself as to my motives really, but to Jman and others of like mind I will say, to bring into the light a discussion on the tongues issue is not to lead anyone astray, however to keep such an issue in the dark, as you seem so keen to do, and not allow free and open discussion in love seems to me to be the real attempt to lead people astray.
Finally Jman writes “Please be informed that the error is on your part.” Alright, I can accept that statement but only if instead of making such a statement in ignorance, obvious pride and with an overflowing feeling spiritual superiority, you back it up with some biblical fact as I stated above. Surely this is not a matter of who is right and who is wrong this is a matter of bringing true glory to Jesus.

Many Blessings to you all
May the wind be always at your back
Yours in Christ
Noolie

Greetings to you all,
The time has arrived for us to begin to unravel the false theology of the charismatic movement which has so blinded many people. Also at the end you will find a challenge, I hope not to be too overwhelmed by volunteers.
Acts 2:4 is the charismatic touchstone, containing what many Pentecostals and charismatics view as the core truth of the New Testament: "They were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance."
Most charismatics believe this verse teaches that at conversion Christians receive the Holy Spirit only in a limited sense. Therefore, they believe, Christians need to seek Spirit baptism in order to move to a higher level of spiritual life, being supernaturally immersed in the power of God's Spirit. The experience is they say always—accompanied by speaking in tongues and results in new spiritual motivation and power. The notion that one gets salvation at one point and the baptism of the Spirit later is often referred to as the doctrine of subsequence.
Here are two Pentecostal distinctives: "first, the doctrine of subsequence, i.e., that there is for Christians a baptism in the Spirit distinct from and subsequent to the experience of salvation, and secondly the doctrine of tongues as the initial physical evidence of baptism in the Spirit Pentecostals believe that the Spirit has baptized every believer into Christ, this happens at conversion, but that Christ has not baptized every believer into the Spirit. Not only do the charismatics believe that the baptism of the Spirit happens at some point after salvation, but most also believe that Spirit baptism is something Christians must seek Thus the most important characteristics of the Pentecostal understanding of the baptism in the Holy Spirit are
(1) that the event is usually "distinct from and subsequent to" the new birth;
(2) that it is evidenced initially by the sign of speaking in other tongues;
(3) that it must be "earnestly" sought. Those three elements baptism of the Spirit subsequent to conversion, the earnest seeking of those who are baptized, and the evidence of speaking in tongues are characteristic of nearly all charismatic
doctrine.
Sadly in most other areas of theology, charismatics are vague, but here they usually speak a clear word regarding what they believe. Charismatics attempt to support their doctrine of subsequence from the book of Acts and First Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit" simply this cannot be used to prove subsequence because the verse simply says that all
believers have been baptized by one Spirit into the body of Christ. Indeed, it would seem clear that the baptism described in 1 Corinthians 12:13 cannot take place at a point in time after salvation. If this were true then what Paul says could not be true of all Christians. No evidence such as tongues is mentioned, and no requirement of seeking the baptism is alluded to. Charismatics are also unable to use 1 Corinthians 14 to prove the tenets of subsequence, evidence, or seeking, because the chapter has nothing to say about any of those elements. In fact, the only passages charismatics can use to support their doctrine of subsequence are found in Acts. The epistles say nothing that can be construed to support the idea.
However, the truth is, even the book of Acts fails to support the charismatic view. Only four passages mention tongues or receiving the Holy Spirit: chapters 2, 8, 10, and 19. Only in Acts 2 and 8 do believers receive the Spirit after salvation. In Acts 10 and 19, believers were baptized in the Spirit at the moment of belief. So the doctrine of subsequence cannot be convincingly defended even from the book of Acts.
But what about tongues? Believers spoke in tongues in Acts 2, 10, and 19, but there is no record of tongues in chapter 8. What about the requirement of earnestly seeking the baptism? The believers in Acts 2 simply waited prayerfully for the fulfillment of the Lord's promise. In chapters 8, 10, or 19, no seeking is mentioned. The point is clear. To say that the book of Acts presents the normal pattern for receiving the Holy Spirit presents a problem: no consistent pattern is evident in Acts!
It is true that Christians at Pentecost (Acts 2), Gentiles in Cornelius's household (chap. 10), and the Jews at Ephesus who had only the baptism of John (chap. 19) received the Holy Spirit and tongues followed. But because those three events occurred does not mean they are to be the standard for every other Christian. In fact, none of the passages I am discussing (Acts 2, 8, 10, or 19) imply that similar experiences are to be had by anyone else. If tongues were to be the normal experience, why were tongues not mentioned in Acts 8 when the Samaritans received the Holy Spirit? Why does the text in Acts 2 through 4 not say that everyone who believed following Peter's sermons over five thousand people according to Acts 4:4 and received the Holy Spirit Acts 2:38 also spoke in tongues? In order for something to be the normative, it has to be common to everyone. Clearly from the scripture we can see it was not.

The Bible states in 1John 1:4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God;
Lets be obedient to the word then, who among us does not want to be?
So here is the challenge,
Lets choose from among us, and at random, one or perhaps two persons who claim to have the gift of tongues. At this point we should have a linguistic expert present to see if the structure can indeed lead us to believe that this is a language and not gibberish. Then lets have that person or persons use that so called gift while being recorded, now we have it on tape so no confusion can arise. Now again, let us choose two people from among us who claim to have the gift of interpretation. Let them be unknown to each other and let them not come into contact with each other until the test is complete. Then lets play the tape to the interpreters separately and without any possible influence from anyone, and have them interpret while we record their words. If the tongue is from God the message or whatever should be consistent and clear without any confusion whatsoever. 1Cor 14:33 “for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints” this simple test would go a long way to solve the difficulties between us. I await your replies.

May the Lord bless you all
May the wind be always at your back
In Christian love
Noolie

No answers to my questions? No takers to my test. Surely there is someone among you willing to step forward. Soon this whole thing will be closed for reasons better not stated here, but not of my doing I am ready to continue to show the tongues movement for what it really is. What do I do now? Give in to the devil? No way. When and if I am removed by the speech police I will continue this battle in another place only you will miss the important outcome.

Blessings Noolie

Hi Noolie, I see your still at it. I will tell you this: Nimrod at the tower of Babel probably felt the same way as you do, as everyone spoke out in different languages then, same goes concerning tongues of the spirit today, (modern day Nimrods) with excellant speach criticise what they don't understand. Same thing happened in Acts They thought they were all crazy people Acts 2:12,13. Acts 2:4,8 explains clearly that the holy spirit gave them utterance, it's not they controled what their tongue spoke but the holy spirit took control and used their bodily member the "tongue" and spoke in a language we were born with, not known languages. Not all scripture is going to talk about tongues when refering to the holy spirit baptism, there are other points and issues that they were writing about.
When using creation to discribe our make up being created in God's image, discribes God the holy ghost in his likeness in his spirit form compaired to us in our fleshly form.
By the way:
Look on the brite side Nimrod lost control of the buildings of his tower by lack of communication and support which never made it into the heavens as planned,God made a house call and changed history. As Nimrod the same goes for all those who denigh the infilling of the holy spirit baptism with the evidance of speaking in other tongues as the spirit gives the utterance.
John 3:5 (King James Version)

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

As I said there is a answer for every question you have but your not prepared to receive them.

I agree with noolie on this one. He has given strong biblical evidence for the original purpose of tongues. These days it has been totally changed into people just accepting gobbledegook as a different language.

I used to stand next to a guy in church a few years back and I swear this is the truth, his praying in tongues was something like 'shikitabobbacorianderseeds'.

When they tried to 'baptise me in the holy spirit' in the same church, it would not happen, I told them as much and they said 'just let it flow out of you'. I

'm not sure if there is any evidence in the bible of being 'baptised in the holy spirit' and then being able to magically and instantly be able to talk in another language. Yes I read about the holy spirit descending like a dove upon Jesus when he was baptised, but I'm not sure about this whole tongue things. I have been in churches where the pastor has starting babbling something meaningless in something that is supposedly tongues. Isn't there meant to be translation for this?

Greetings
RFeasel continues to avoid the real question continues in his misunderstanding of the events of Acts and Corinthians and continues in his erronious use of scripture. So there is no point in relpying. Submit yourself to the test or let it be known that the spirit that you say has given you tongues is demonic and you are being fooled. Why not submit to the test? What do you have to fear? Are you not correct in your own mind?
On the the matter of the questions I posted the truth is that you are coping out for you well know that if you answer them honestly it will demonstrate the error of your position.

Wild? where did this insight come from lol.
Blessings Noolie

Noolie your a lier, and what's worse is you called the holy spirit tongue demonic which is blasphemy of the holy spirit. In which there is no forgiveness for said sin.You don't know anything about the holy spirit cause you don't have it. Wild? what insight could you posibly have cause you never experenced the baptism of the spirit according to Act's 2:4!
Speaking under your own power in other known languages isn't the holy spirit but you doing it your self.