Neither I nor the authors of the paper I quoted (i.e."Anti-Mormons Losing Battle and Not Knowing It,") have claimed to be God or represent the whole of Christianity. Apparently, you are already trying to fills those roles.

So true whosever, so true !

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Don´t know when the penny will drop ? Nice whosever, very nice !
God Bless.

Hello seekHm1st,
thank you for your obsevations and reply to my post.
From the Collins English Dictionary quote:

1. Transgress; a.to break (a law etc) b. to go beyond or overstep (a limit)from Latin trans + gradi = to step.

2. Sin; Theol. a. transgression of God´s known will or any principal or law regarded as embodying this. b. the condition of estrangement from God arising from such transgression.

i would suggest that to sin and to transgress do differ, in the conclusion that sin, being the greater and to transgress, being the lesser. I also suggest that Adam and Eve merely stepped over the Law
I would also like you to consider something that I, respectfully, find a little amusing; Why, do you think, God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden in the first place and then commanded His children not to eat of it ? Do you think that it would have been easier that the tree was not created in the first instance ? It suggests to me that God, our Heavenly Father, in His infinite wisdom, knew that Adam and Eve must take part of the forbidden fruit. Would you not agree ?

Also, as whosover has already clearly explained, if we had no sin then there would be no need of a Redeemer, ie; Jesus Christ, but because we do sin or transgress we are in absolute need of the Attonement of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I await your reply.

God Bless.

thematrix,

You stated:

I guess when I said yours is a novel approach to what happened in the garden, this is the kind of answer I expected. I don't know how, given the definitions which we have both posted, that you can differentiate between the two in this way. You will hopefully pardon me when I posit that this must be a matter of your opinion since twice you say that you "suggest" what you believe. First you "suggest" that to sin and to transgress do differ, in the conclusion that sin, being the greater and to transgress, being the lesser. I don't have a clue how you can have arrived at that. The Bible is loaded--loaded with instances where people "transgressed" God's Law and were forsaken by Him because of their "transgression". Do a word search. I think it would be worth your time.

The next "suggestion" is "that Adam and Eve merely stepped over the Law". That's like saying that a woman is merely a little pregnant. Truly, this is an understatement of epic proportions on your part. Another understatement is this one......God hates sin. He doesn't feel any better about transgression. God hates sin so much that even though He does not want that any should perish, and even though He would rather that all men come to repentance, He will punish lawbreakers who do not repent. "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrew 10:31

God is not just somewhat perfect. He is infinitely perfect in every aspect of His character. That is why we must be seen as perfect to enter into heaven, because our sin---even what might be considered a small sin by human reasoning is a deep and ugly scarring imperfection that cries out to God for punishment, and His perfect justice demands that sin be punished. That is why it is so critical to recognize what Jesus did for us. He had no sin of His own. As God, He is perfect. Yet, He came to earth, lived here being fully God and fully man to take the punishment for our sins. EVERYONE has transgressed the Laws of God, and everyone deserves death for that. It is only by God's mercy and grace that He allowed His Son to take our place on the cross for the punishment we deserved. I don't see the difference that you suggest. Any sin makes us deserving of God's wrath against our sin. To differentiate between transgression and sin might be a modern and convenient concept, but I don't see it in Scripture.

Though I don't find it in the least bit amusing, I think this is something we can agree on. God's placement of the tree in the Garden of Eden was perfect in wisdom. Since He is all-knowing, there is no doubt that He knew what Adam and Eve would do. Who are we to question the beauty of His plan. It is my belief that He knew precisely what Adam and Eve would do, and that there would be no other to pay for the sins of man, and because of His holiness and goodness He provided a way for salvation so that the glory could be His alone, and rightly so.

Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

While I agree that we are in absolute need a Savior, I am not sure what you are driving at. The way you have worded that, it almost sounds as though you believe that there is a benefit, or a "good side" to the fact that sin exists. Surely that is not what you are saying?

All of the glory belongs to God, but every ounce of guilt for sin resides squarely on the shoulders of mankind.

Blessings,
seekHm1st

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[quote=seekHm1st;23296]thematrix,

You stated:



Like I already know, you regard your own "opinions" as being authoritive, when after all, you´re only "guessing" !
What I write may only be novel, but the simple things are often the pleasing things to God. It´s only man that complecates things.

The two words sin and transgress are differentiated by the Collins ENGLISH Dictionary if you´d care to check.

I forgive all. I am commanded to. I do it freely.
I am entitled to my own opinion. I do not suggest what I believe, I just believe.

Yes, that is correct. The two words do differ !

I know you don´t. It´s a matter of understanding.

I know this, thank you. I also know there are conscequences but I believe in Repentance and a Loving God. Not a God of threats.

Yes, Latin; trans; gradi: to step. How you come to the statement about a pregnant woman I don´t know ?

Understatement not. Epic proportions makes you !

This is your statement seekhm1st not mine. So it is your understatement !
I am aware that God cannot look upon sin, but hate comes NOT from God but from lucifer.

I agree.

There is a difference. The words are not modern, they are from the beginning. You will find the two words in the Old and New Testaments and numerous
dictionary´s.





Its not my problem that you don´t find what I find amusing, on this I agree.

I agree and you agree that God knew they would transgress the law. For which purpose,why ?


I know seek.... it´s purley a matter of understanding.

I live your convienient use of the word "almost" here. Again, it is NOT I who is saying this, but you !

Agreed seekhm1st. Adam is NOT accountable for our sins, only ourselves.

"The popularity of the principle does not determine its Truth."

thematrix.

For the sake of clarity,

In chapter 8 of Proverbs, wisdom is personified as a prophetess, and all men and women are called to heed her words, as they are everlasting.

8:1 Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice? 2 She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths. 3 She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors. 4 Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man. 5 O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart. 6 Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things. 7 For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips. 8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them. 9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge. 10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold. 11 For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it. 12 I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions. 13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogance, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. 14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength. 15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice. 16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth. 17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me. 18 Riches and honor are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness. 19 My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver. 20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment: 21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures. 22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: 28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: 29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: 30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; 31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men. 32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways. 33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not. 34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors. 35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favor of the LORD. 36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death."

In verse 13 we are told by "wisdom" that we are to hate evil. We are told to hate pride, arrogance and the ways of evil. We are told that wisdom hates perverse speech. It is God who hates these things. Some people don't like the word hate, but it is righteous of God to hate these things. Unrighteous hatred is from the pit. Righteous hatred of sin is from God. His word says that He does, and that we should too. This is not talking about hating the person who hates God, but about know that their sin is wrong, and hating that sin. We could make people more comfortable by saying that God "detests" sin. It means the exact same thing, but it doesn't have the connotation which makes people bristle.

Be certain though.....God is not all-loving. Yes, He is love, and He loves all, even the unrepentant, but the unrepentant will not pass out of His wrath. People who die without Jesus will not be with God eternally. He loves, but He has wrath against the sin of the unsaved---every single day. Without a real wrath, without a real anger, grace and mercy are robbed of their meaning. This is a truth which is vital to know, because if one passes from this life without His merciful grace through repentance and faith, they will go on to eternal punishment.

Blessings,
seekHm1st

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