im a muslim and some of my frens said that it does not take place.

im currently doing some research on Christianity.

any answers will be appreciated

thanks

hey there bro,

droll here....i am a verum peto like anyone else. the question posted by igliojack is a really interesting one. one tat question the very core of christianity - the crucifixion of jesus christ....

is it a cruciFIXION or a cruciFICTION???

let me just clear the way ahead with this verse from the bible -

King James Bible (KJV)
1 Chorinthians 15:14

If Christ is not risen from he dead, then our preaching is in vain, and also your faith is also vain.


Saint Paul who wrote this book, also mentioned tat the crucifixion, if its not real, then theres no christianity. thats it for me today....looking forward for the next reply.

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Im going to answer this 2 ways generally and specifically.
Im going to assume you meant the crucifixion of Christ first off And the answer is yes. We know that it did from both biblical and non biblical records non biblical records state that a man named Jesus was crucified.

Now for a general answer believe it or not crucifixion was a preferred method of execution up until i think 800 to 1100 years ago and continued in some cases more recently (in some parts of the world it happened in the early 1700s). Fact is your own prophet (personal beliefs aside here) Mohammad would have possibly witnessed a couple people crucified in his own time as if i recall he lived in the 600s ad (correct me if im wrong on the date i don't know the history very well concerning him and when he lived)

Faith based response
I have faith that yes Jesus did die and rise again exactly as the bible says he did. For me to question the manner of death and resurrection would be like you questioning weather or not Mohammad existed and what he did in his life time. It is foundational in other words.


Personal belief below i do not want to start a debate with you here in topic

I personally believe that Islam is a false religion but will not go in to why etc in this topic if you do want my own views on it feel free to use my visitor messages area or private messages. Id be more than happy to share with you my own faith and why i believe Christianity is the only way to heaven.

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hey there,

droll here....some comments to the topic at hand -

is it a cruciFIXION or a cruciFICTION???

1) let me just clear the way ahead with this verse from the bible -

King James Bible (KJV)
1 Chorinthians 15:14

If Christ is not risen from he dead, then our preaching is in vain, and also your faith is also vain.

Saint Paul who wrote this book, also mentioned tat the crucifixion, if its not real, then theres no christianity.

2) similar to some myths???

Let us just take a moment to probably reach out and read other accounts of mythologies concerning the anthropomorphism of how God, in his divine presence, came down as humans and had to be sacrificed and resurrected.

- Horus, the Egyptian Sun god was crucified and resurrected after 3 days (from Egyptian Book of the dead)

- Krishna, the Hindu god was crucified on a tree and was resurrected (from Hindu Bagavad-gita)

- Thammuz of Syria who was sacrificed to atone for sins and was resurrected (from the poem Persika)

- Prometheus, the Greek Titan was crucified and have up the ghost (from the poem Theogony)

there's actually a list of deities being crucified to atone for some sins others did. There appears to be one in probably every culture and mythology about tat.

3) the idea of original sin

i would just like to hightlight that the idea of crucifixion is due to wat adam and eve did back in the Eden days. Because of the consumption of the forbidden fruit, mankind is condemned. And it has to take God Almighty, for probably thousands of years to make a pagan decision to come down as a man to get born in a stable, grew up as a carpenter, life live til 30, accused as an impostor by his own people he was sent to, got betrayed by one of his disciple (Judas), went into hiding, prepared to fight, got caught, abandoned by his own disciples, shackled as well as tortured, brought around by romans and jews to get paraded, not trialled for watever he was charged for, got nailed to a cross, got crucified for a few hours, pronounced dead not by any physicians, was given the funeral rites, buried or rather put in a sephelchre, resurrected (i thought God are immortal) after 3 days and was eventually ascended to heaven. All this happened, because someone ate a fruit he and she wasn't supposed to eat.

i mean, tat has to take tremendous faith to believe in, no offense.

4) from nova - "non biblical records state that a man named Jesus was crucified.."

would you be so nice as to show this non biblical records. you have to excuse me coz im not really fluent in anthropology.

5) from nova - "was a preferred method of execution up until i think 800 to 1100 years ago ...Mohammad would have possibly witnessed a couple people crucified in his own time as if i recall he lived in the 600s ad....

i dont really get the point you are making on this one but in the book, "History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman empire by Edward Gibbon, it describes Emperor Constantine 1 abolished crucifixion in 337 ad. It was also not a popular form of punishment in Arabia since and only resurface until the Umayad's rule in the middle ages.

6) from nova - "I have faith that yes Jesus did die and rise again exactly as the bible says he did"

The biblical accounts in the bible describing the resurrection portrays jesus to be hiding. He was dressed or disguised as a gardener after he was "resurrected" (a). If he was trully dead, the bible did say u can't die twice (b). So wat was the charade of disguise all about???

(a) - Gospel of John 20:15 (KJV)
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away


Wow, its been such a long post....sorry its tat long....didnt meant it to be. neways, those are my 2 cents.

- droll -

Droll:

Let us just take a moment to probably reach out and read other accounts of mythologies concerning the anthropomorphism of how God, in his divine presence, came down as humans and had to be sacrificed and resurrected.

- Horus, the Egyptian Sun god was crucified and resurrected after 3 days (from Egyptian Book of the dead)

- Krishna, the Hindu god was crucified on a tree and was resurrected (from Hindu Bagavad-gita)

- Thammuz of Syria who was sacrificed to atone for sins and was resurrected (from the poem Persika)

- Prometheus, the Greek Titan was crucified and have up the ghost (from the poem Theogony)

there's actually a list of deities being crucified to atone for some sins others did. There appears to be one in probably every culture and mythology about tat.

Cantstandzya:

C.S. Lewis was at a time a devout atheist and as he attended Oxford University he met up with J.R. Tolkien who was a devout Christian and they had many talks on this matter and matters such as these and had become very good friends. According to C.S. Lewis, Tolkien explained it as such: Perhaps those stories are God speaking to man through poets and perhaps the actual crucifiction of Christ is God speaking to man through love.

Don't know if this helps you any but it seemed to be something that began a help in C.S. Lewis and as he described that at the age of 30 he became the most reluctant Chrisitan in all of England and later became one of the most vocal supporters in defending the faith.

Droll:

i mean, tat has to take tremendous faith to believe in, no offense.

Cantstandzya:

Telling a christian that it requires faith is sorta like telling a carpenter he needs a hammer.

Peace to you

hey everyone,

just some opinions -

1) from cantstandzya - " C.S. Lewis was at a time a devout atheist and as he attended Oxford University he met up with J.R. Tolkien who was a devout Christian and they had many talks on this matter and matters such as these and had become very good friends. According to C.S. Lewis, Tolkien explained it as such:

Don't know if this helps you any but it seemed to be something that began a help in C.S. Lewis and as he described that at the age of 30 he became the most reluctant Chrisitan in all of England and later became one of the most vocal supporters in defending the faith. "

yeah, im happy for C.S Lewis that he found his faith. Anyone who doesn't really know abt how C.S Lewis work is he based his book, Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe in the idea of Christianity where Aslan, a lion, was a symbol for Christ who sacrificed his life and was resurrected for a final battle against evil.

still, that has nothing to do with the crucifixion. how many throughout history did men convert to believe in something else??? Millions. But not only christianity. Men has been converting to any faith he thinks that either suits him, is the true religion or for watever reasons.

2) "Perhaps those stories are God speaking to man through poets and perhaps the actual crucifiction of Christ is God speaking to man through love. "

Yeah perhaps God is speaking through poets about love. I don't know about your perception on God and religion but i do know one thing. If God does speak to poets or others to write something about other gods about this and that which introduced pagan ideas, then that God has agendas to create confusion and wants human to be divided in faith. I don't know, if I were to be God, i think i would want my creations to worship only me. For example, why would i want to create a discman that cannot play any disc???

3) previous post of mine

I was highlighting in my previous post that, since there were pagan stories about other deities having the same story as Christ's crucifixion and resurrection as well as God having to be sacrificed based on a story similar to the idea of the original sin and the atonement, i am proposing that the whole idea of christianity is just another story of how God has to come down to get sacrificed and resurrected to atone for a sin or a deed. In short, since there were earlier similar stories in mythologies, couldn't it also mean that christianity is also another story???

4) "Telling a christian that it requires faith is sorta like telling a carpenter he needs a hammer. "

i think u got me wrong there. i didn't say that christianity requires faith. of course any religion requires faith. wat i did say was that, to believe in the idea of the original sin as i did not so eloquently put in my previous post, is has to take tremendous faith to believe in. in short, i was saying that it has to take more then 100 % capacity of the faith to fathom, comprehend, digest and belief to be believing in it. why??? because for the life of me, i can't. no offense, but the whole idea which i described it, is too bizarre. it would really be great to make me understand the idea of the original sin because i have been trying to for years.

alright....really, dont take offense to my words coz i was just reasoning and not attacking. so much for my 2 cents. cheers.

- droll -

i have a query.

u were saying that anyone can be crucified, or only Christ can be crucified?

is it allowed for anyone to be crucified to imitate the doings of Christ?

hey everyone,

igliojack, i would like to hear your opinions on the subject. wat are your thoughts on crucifixion??? or wat did your friends say abt it???

hey there,

here's wat i think

from igliojack -

1) " u were saying that anyone can be crucified, or only Christ can be crucified?

is it allowed for anyone to be crucified to imitate the doings of Christ? "

anyone can be crucified. crucifixion is a form of ancient execution. if you look at history, it shows that crucifixion dated back as early as 6000 BC and was famous in ancient civilisations such as Egyptians, Persians, Seleucids, Carthaginians, Greeks and Romans. The stories in their mythologies were also filled with them. Again, victims of crucifixion were numerous.

There are people who practiced crucifixion in the modern day to commemorate the crucifixion of jesus christ. These appear mostly during easter, famous articles about them happening in America as well as Philippines. These people didn't die practicing the crucifixion (although i havnt read any reports anyone was dead practicing it).

crucifixion by definition - The act of crucifying; execution on a cross

so, those who were put on the cross and didn't actually die, weren't in fact crucified. because to be crucified, is to actually die on the cross....according to the definition.

Again, the whole idea of only Jesus having to be the only one who can be crucified, goes back to the idea of the original sin. Because of the original sin, everything has to happen the way the christian world believe it.

tats it from me

if i understand then, anyone can be crucified.

is there any prove from the bible that says Christ was crucified?

if yes, anyone care to state the reference?

thanks.