Originally Posted by seekHm1st

Graemebell,

I can only say that yours is not a Christian theology. Theology matters...so very much.

I don't know if I have ever seen a user put out so many contradictions and mixed signals in one thread before. It is heavily nonsensical. Your suggestions about actual contextual meanings based on punctuation changes is about as careless a hermeneutical practice as I have ever seen.

Only the Jehovah's Witnesses intentional use of punctuation as a tool of their agenda is more of a concern. You really ought to carefully consider how haphazardly you are making these suggestions.

You have placed the real meaning of the following text in question: 56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." 57 So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple." (From John, Chapter 8)

You are making a very tricky suggestion about the punctuation in this passage. The main issue is what you are doing with the term, "I AM" in verse 58. Your suggestion might even make sense if you weren't completely ignoring so many things, not the least of which is linguistic consistency and common sense. In order to do what you wish to do, you would need to take the Greek language and turn it into a language which it is not. Graemebell, there is a structure to any language. If one goes about changing that structure, then you are creating another language. That amounts to what you are doing here. There is a tense for that phrase in its linguistic setting that is unique to Greek. You can't force an English language tense onto it and say you have not polluted its meaning. In so doing, you take something extremely huge and pass it off as meaningless. Because you don't understand the Trinity, you are acting with a presuppositional bent against any true reasoning for it.

You are also ignoring the textually critical use and insertion of indefinite articles lik "a" and "an" for general readability. The Greek language doesn't have indefinite articles, so if it is to be translated into a readable version in English, those have to be added in. There isn't anything wrong with this---so long as when doing so the meaning of the text is not changed in any way. You are redefining the meaning of certain texts, and whether or not you are aware of it you are in fact saying that Jesus is less than He is. This is not only careless and irresponsible, it is heretical.

You have called into question the Divinity of Jesus Christ, and you have taken a tack from the Jehovah's Witnesses on this point and others. Are you a Jehovah's Witness? It begins to sound like you are.



Aspros-Tigris gave you some good examples of Scripture that make it obvious that Jesus is God. He is not "a" god. He is "Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" who was predicted in Isaiah 9:6. He is the Word who became flesh.

He is the man who wrestled with Jacob until the breaking of the day. He is the One who visited Abraham in the plains of Mamre with two of His angels. He allowed Abraham to worship Him there. He is the One who allowed Himself to be worshiped at least five times in the gospel account of Matthew.

He received worship because He is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15) and because (He) "......God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

Graemebell, only God is worthy of worship, and the Bible tells us in the Old Testament; "22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." (Isaiah 45)

Again, it tells us in the New Testament; "5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Just because the Bible says that the Father is greater than Jesus does not mean that they are not One. It is simply a matter of subserviency of roles. The husband is the head of the wife, but the Bible tells us that we are all equal in Christ, and we are. Husbands and wives are equals, but have separate roles to play in a marriage so that the marriage may be orderly. God is a God of order--of peace--and in the matter of the three persons or subsistencies if you will--within the Trinity, the roles fulfilled are in perfect order.



These things have been fully addressed on this server.

Blessings,
seekHm1st